Back To The Original Source - Interview with R.C. Tha Trackaholiq

2010-03-07T14:42:00.000-08:00

“When the circle comes Full, it is not the end, it is a NEW beginning. Learn from the circles behind you and your next will be bigger and stronger.”

Ryan “RC” Croone from the insert of his CD “Cidewayz: Full Circle”

Hailing from the town that is the stomping grounds of Jake One, Vitamin D, Tha Bizness and other notable producers, Seattle’s own Ryan “RC Tha Trackaholiq” Croone is no new cat to this game. His discography is 40 plus albums deep and he’s been long regarded as one of the towns elite producers. In the 5 years since his last release “Still Rainin’,” RC was still making music, but spending more time as a family man and enjoying life, hence the title of his new album “Full Circle.”

“Full Circle” features a lineup of some of Seattle’s top talent in both Rap and R&B, which includes D.Black, Wojack, Tiffany Wilson, Fatal Lucciano, Black Stax, Lady Tasz & Piece, Silver Shadow D and others.

I had the opportunity to sit down with R.C. on the eve of his new album and find out more about “Full Circle” and what his future holds.

What’s the concept behind the album “Full Circle?”

It’s called Full Circle. It’s kind of a career coming to a full circle. I kinda got put back into the same place that I was like 10 years ago. Got really good, then family and stuff started happening and I was like “I’ve been here before” At the same time, the music I was making I was like “I have a chance to do this again, but do it the way that I want to do it.” So that’s kinda the concept. A new start. I’ve come full circle and I’m starting a new circle.

Did you take a break?

I kinda took some breaks, you know with jobs and all that stuff, so I wasn’t doing it full time anymore. Like ‘99 around then when we were at Let’s Do This, you know it was a real job. It was good. But you know then after that, had to go get jobs, then the baby came, then married, then the house….

Where we gotta grow up, huh?

Where we gotta grow up. Then you start fighting all that stuff. Then you’re like a grownup trying to be a kid again and start messing stuff up. The album Full Circle means you know coming around to kinda the same place, but with more maturity. Grown up a little bit as far as the music and stuff. And I really wanted to show it on the album. I felt like I needed to. Because people are like “…RC is this and that…” But they are basing it on the old stuff.

Now when you say the “old stuff” what are you talking about exactly?

Like back then, it was just about selling beats. We would be selling beat after beat after beat after beat. And it’s just flying on to these albums that we don’t really even care about. We’re just doing the music. So they’re just hearing the music. They were just ignoring the people that were on the records. My reputation for what I was doing I would say a year ago, they were basing it off of that. But I wanted to show them that it’s more than just that. Because back then, it was just like make the beat as crazy as possible, with as many strings, as many horns and stuff, just to sell it. But now, let’s make a song. So I’m trying to be a producer here, not just a beat maker.

That’s actually an interesting topic. In your opinion, what’s the difference between a beat maker and a producer? Would you have ever considered yourself at one time a beat maker?

Of course. When I started I was a “beat maker” then when people started coming around and getting music from me, I still had no say in what they were saying, or the hooks or anything. So I was just making beats. I didn’t really start producing until my first album, when I started really picking the people that I wanted to be on it. Then the first album "When It Rains" was me making beats and picking artists but I still had nothing to do with what they were talking about. So I was like in a transition and then I took another run at it with "Still Rainin'" but I really didn't feel like I had much more to do with it, than the beats. This time around, I made the beats, I thought about who was going to be on it, and I told most of them what to talk about or at least the feel of it. Because with these artists on here, I trusted them enough to know where they were gonna go and I just had my piece and I gave it to them. They did an excellent job with it.

Was it a hard process to figure out who you wanted on there?

No it wasn't. But that was part of the maturity because I knew how to pick em. For example, the song I had Wojack on, I had two other people in mind for that and then that came together because I sent the Wojack about 8 beats, but he said, "I like this one. I'm gonna do somethin' to it." and he sent it back and I was like "That's exactly what I wanted." It just came together. Like I told Page One what to do and what to say, and I wasn't there when he recorded it. But he still took care of it. I orchestrated it, but sometimes they were on their own a little bit. I had a lot more to do with the making of the songs then before. I'm on 43 albums and I've had nothing to do with most of any of that stuff, except for selling the beats and paying my rent. And I just look back and was like "Like hey! I don't have any money." 40 albums out here and I just took the money up front, and then like somebody went to jail, somebody doin' this or doin' that, maybe even got killed. The record never sold anymore. Most of the records are good, it's just that there wasn't much of me in them except for the music. I made those for anybody, it just got sold to them. I didn't want to do that anymore. I want people to know that I can put music together. It's about adding value ya know? If you do that, you can do that forever and you'll just be a beatmaker. Anybody can get one of those but you know you want people to come and say "I need that Cidewayz sound. We need that RC." I'm trying to develop that brand if I haven't already. Most people say that I already have, but I think that there is more to that, that I need to do.

What can you talk about the versatility of the sound of the album? With some producers, you can listen to a beat and tell that it was them because all that producers beats sound the same, but with yours, I didn't get that.

That was purposeful. It could be used as a demo because I want people to know that hey, I can do this and I can do that too. I meant to do that. I went to really different artists like Oraclez Creed. The funny part with that song is that they picked a beat that I didn't expect for them. I wanted a little bit of what we did for that unreleased record. I wanted some of that to come through too, because those guys have evolved in like craziest way possible. But when they picked that beat "I was like okay" but they tore it up. I just had something else different in mind for them. Then there's like for example Tiffany Wilson. I told her what I wanted and sometimes it will just come together with that when they get that feeling from the beat. That's what it was really all about. Handing somebody some music and it just brings what you wanted out of them. That's amazing. I didn't have to tell her anything. That's what I wanted. And a lot of those songs came together like that. But I definitely went all over the board, but still stayed me. It's even more of a challenge to be able to do that. A lot of people can't do that. Even using the same equipment or recording in the same studio you come out with the same sound. So I'm happy with the sound and the versatility of it. I'm getting a lot of that back. A lot of people are saying a lot of the stuff that I thought they would, and I'm getting back what I wanted to from the feedback from people.

How long was this in the making?

It took about a year for me to do that. It actually took a little longer to mix, but that was mostly a time thing 'cause Beezie mixed the whole album. 'Cause I can mix, and I've mixed quite a few albums, but I didn't want to concentrate on that this time so it was a matter of hooking up. You know he's got kids, I've got kids and stuff like that. As far as the music and having it all done, that took about 9 months. Then it was like another 9 months to mix and master. It was a time thing but it was about quality too because Beezie will NOT let you leave until it's right. And I knew that too, because we've been working together for a long time, but it's cool to be able to have someone like that in your camp. He definitely made it worth the wait.

I've never been in a session with Beezie, but I hear he's all about his business.

Real deal. When it came to mixing, I'd be like "Can you turn up..." and he'd be like "Were not on that part yet" and then I'd be like "Well the high hats are not on...." and he'd be like "I'm gonna get to that" and I'm like okay I'm just gonna be quiet. But it all comes together every single time. Like any other mix you might have to go back and do this and do that, but he put it together. I arrange everything and bring it to him to mix.

What's the lead single?

“Diamonds” by Fatal Lucciano. Me and Devon (Manier) kinda collaborated on that as far as pushing it and stuff.

How's the collaboration working?

He's given me a few of his avenues and he's pushing it as well because that's his artist. The show (record release party) is coming up so people get to see him and incorporate him performing that song in his set wherever he goes. It's a good look because I wasn't really sure what I was going to do it otherwise. You tell DeVon something and he tells them you know, 'cause they have a lot of stuff going on and it can only spread. I figured that was the best way to go with Fatal's song. And then I probably will follow up with Tiffany and then get into D'Black a little bit after that because he's got a tight buzz going on. That's also what making that record was all about also. I wanted to use people that had a project out or that was going to because no diss to the other people on my last albums, but some of them weren't doing anything. Like my last album, almost everyone disappeared. Like they were gone, or they were not rappin' anymore and one guy told me that he hated his song. I was like "I didn't know that" and he was like "I'm not doing that song” I have fairly decent relationships with these guys and as far as calling on them and stuff like that. All these guys are available and that's good for shows and stuff. These days you are not going to just hit the streets and start selling CD's. You gotta give people more and packaging like that (he points to Jake One & Freeway's "Stimulus Package" CD) and like shows and things like that. So I try to pick people that people will be like "Oh I'm gonna go see him".

Was there a particular artist on here that you were looking forward to collaborating with that you hadn't worked with before?

Me and Wojack had been talking about that forever. And another one was T Love. People on that record didn't just settle, but they also took my word for it. I had to come at T Love a little different because he's about what he likes. I sent him about 3 or 4 beats. He's in L.A and he's like "Nope. Nope. Nope" He wanted something from me that I kinda wasn't feelin' at the time. He's like "I need that RC" I sent him that beat this I was saving for something else and he was like "Okay, okay I can do that." He was more of a challenge like a unicorn. (laughs) I had to conquer him so to speak. But he's happy with it and so am I. And Wojack? C'mon. Wojack won't take just anything but when I gave him the CD he took all the beats on that CD and did songs to all of them. And I was like "Hold up man what you gonna do with all that stuff?" (laughs) but it's Wojack. Oraclez Creed, those guys were so busy that I only had them in the studio for like 30 minutes.

Really?

Yeah, I waited in Portland for like 3 days to get them all together cause they are just so busy. I had to jump on a mini tour that Pale Soul was doin' and I had to ride with them to Long Beach and back. And Sleep was like one foot on a plane and rappin' at the studio at the same time. And Onry is always doin' somethin'. On the album, they hadn't planned on doing anything as Oraclez Creed until maybe they hooked up with me. They figured that I was really busy too. That song means a lot more than someone just hearing it on the album. I definitely couldn't wait for that!

Aside from producing the record, did you bring in any other musicians?

You know what? I didn't bring in as many as I wanted to. There's a lot of stuff that I wanted to do over live like Wojack's song, I wanted most of that song to be live. I wanted a certain sound, but I'm happy with that. It just kinda didn't work out that way. On Page One's song, there’s a loop from Thaddeus (Turner) but he didn't play it live. he just came and strummed on the guitar for like an hour and me and Beezie sat there and recorded him, so I pulled that out. But that's not live. The last song Blessed Love that was a song that me and Pale did in Portland and did they did a lot of that stuff live after I left. I wasn't there for that. When I set out to do the album I did want most of it to be live, but it just didn't work out that way. That's okay but maybe next time. I was on The Gene Dexter Show and I was like I want to make something and have like an orchestra play it. For the release party I get to do all of them live. That was like a dream of mine. I've developed a way to play the wah wah guitar on the Trinity that people still don't understand.

You gotta make do with what you got...

Right, right. I've always admired Roc Phella. He'll make a beat and he's an excellent drummer and then he'll come in with a guitar and a bass. I wish I could do that but I've always wanted that in my music. But I did get a chance to work with him on Gangsta Nutt’s “Check Mate” and he laced me up. I like working with the musicians but it's a matter of convenience.

There's a lot of great musicians from the town

I'm using Goody Bagg which includes Vitamin D's dad (Herman Brown) and they were showing me a video and talking about the Wheedle's Groove movie. I had a cousin that was in a funk band and I mentioned him to Herm and his brother Coleman, and those guys went nuts! Oh My God! Toby Croone he was bad. He played this and that. I was learning more in that hour with talking with those guys, than I ever known about him my whole life. He was in a group called Onyx. And so they were talking about how he played with them and then Gerald (Thaddeus brother) was talking about how my cousin used to pick him and Thaddeus up when they were like 15 and taking them on gigs and stuff. I mean the connection is like wow!

The connections are crazy. You fast forward to today and you have you as a producer, and your brother was Capn' Crunch (James Croone) of The Emerald Street Boys, and then you are D'Black's uncle....it's wild....

I met my cousin like once or twice before he died, but I wasn't even into music. I think a little bit after he died I started playing drums. I do think though my cousin Toby and my brother hooked up when he was in The Emerald Street Boys to do some music. I'm not sure what he did for him, but I know they were doing some music for a minute.

Tell me about the packaging on the album.

I was going through records for a sample and I think I saw a Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes or one of those records. Anyway, I think they had a journalist kinda write about what was going on as they recorded each song. And I thought that was pretty cool. I hadn't realized that The Roots do that all the time too. I guess I should be reading more, but I don't (laughs). I thought that was a good idea. Some of those were hard. Some of those were too much stuff and some of them was not enough information, but it was a lot of fun to do that. I think it adds value to a package. Like this right here (again points to the Jake One & Freeway CD)...c'mon. You’ll always have that to show somebody. I was at The Contour handing some out and in the middle of all this drinking and dancing, they were standing there in the middle reading the CD. That's cool and they read the whole thing.

We are living in a digital era where if kids don't actually go out there and physically buy the product, if they go and download it or purchase it off of iTunes, they are not getting this education.

Even if this is in stores, they still don't get the producers, the musicians, or any of that from a download.

That's exactly what I mean. There are certain albums you pick up and it would list the instruments and such that were used on the record. There are producers now that are trying to go back and get those actual keyboards and other instruments because it's a much different sound then what you get when you use Reason, their sound kits and a midi keyboard.

Like the analog thing. Everybody’s going back to analog keyboards. Like the Moog you have to know what each dial meant. Like I don't know how Parliament and all those guys.....like each sound was different but you had to dial it in. And they would have to do that at every show. And they had to, that was part of being a musician. I have an analog keyboard that I'm going to use for the show where I have to switch a few things, but that was like part of their job. 20-30 knobs...you just can't get it out of a Triton. Sometimes you have to go back and get those real instruments. Like Lil Jon and all those guys take it and play these big chords because they are already plugged in, but that's no fun. Play with it a little bit and make different sounds. People are like "I didn't know it could do that" and had the keyboard for two years.

As far as your musical background, what all instruments can you play?

Well I started out on drums a long time ago at South Shore in 7th grade. Then I did the whole marching band thing. Then I really didn't get into anything electronically until I needed a drum set, and my parents got me a drum machine. And then I got eMax, eMu and then I started playing them together. Midi wasn't that old back then. I think at that time, they really got that language down so you could hook up anything to anything. So I was playing the drum machine and keyboard together and making beats. That was like in 1989. Then people just started coming to my house to record. By that time, I was recording on a 2 track reel to reel that my dad gave me. You know like those old 70's movies where they have the coolest apartment and a reel to reel. And they don't sell reel to reels in the store with music on 'em, so they were like making their own mixtapes for like parties. My dad would actually record the music they were playing at the party onto the tape. Then play it again. So I got that because he had a cassette deck by then, so he gave that to me. So I was boucnin’ back and forth on one tape. You can take the stereo tracks and make 'em mono, so I was recording on that. So it was like I was runnin' a real studio and people were comin' from all over to record in my bedroom. (laughs) That's pretty much were I started. I went to school for engineering for a minute for engineering....

Audio engineering?

Uh huh. I went to Shoreline for that for about a year and then I started working at 8 Ball Studios with Keek (Ghetto Prez) he gave me my first engineering job ever. 23rd & Cherry. I worked there for a little bit. Then after that, that's when I started Cidewayz Studios and that's when I was on Rainier & Rose. That was like in '95 or '96. It was right across from LaTeef's. I was working for the house for a long time, then I started getting into 4 tracks and 6 tracks and all that. Then I had ADAT Recording at Cidewayz. I shut that down and then I moved to Let's Do This with Sam Stephens. He kinda pulled me into his spot. So right around that time something happened with Beezie's studio and he was working with Sam too. So he me, Beezie and Damani under the same roof and it was us 4 running that place. I was doing all the engineering, and Beezie was cranking out beats, I was cranking out beats, and Damani was doing beats and engineering. We made a lot of money there. Legitimately making music. We had all our clientele coming to one studio.

You guys had E-40 and all those guys come thru, right?

Yep he would come thru. Like the best thing that ever happened to me as far as studio experiences was this random dude who had a bunch of money came in and dropped a lot of money on me and Beezie and was like "Give me some beats and have them ready when I get back." And when he came back, he came in the door and tight behind him he had with him B Legit, Richie Rich, Mac Mall who was like my favorite rapper at that time, Lil Bruce and a couple of guys from the Bay that weren't too famous along with 3 of his own artists. And dude was like "Okay, were ready!" So they took all the beats we sold them. So he just had them in the studio like we were doing 10-12 hour days and he was just trying to make this album, but it never came out. I don't even know what happened to him. I don't even know where dude came from. It was that random. We had recorded for like 5 days.

Did they come in ready?

Nah, they were doing a lot of writing right there. Recording Richie Rich, B Legit any of them...it was amazing. I really don't know what happened after that. I don't know where the masters are or anything.

From this album, what is your goal? Where are you hoping to go from here?

There’s a couple of things. Now that I have children and they are really interested in what I'm doing, they see me doing it and they see me going to the studio, but I'm coming back with stuff that I wouldn't let them listen to. They couldn't listen to that stuff. They see a picture of me on a CD and they can't listen to it? That's just not right. So, I wanted to make something that they can listen to and that my parents can listen to. So I wanted to make something for them too. It's just the kind of music I wanted to make. At the same time, it’s a fairly universal CD, and not a cuss word on it. One reference to a weed bag or something and we just let that one slide....

That and "Your Panties Are Showin'"….

(laughs) Yeah, that's a funny story. When Tiffany told me that it's like your slip is showin' but I'm gonna call it panties. And I was like "Alright". But she told me the story behind it where she had to tell this girl at like a family function and she was dang near laying on her back doing some crazy dance with some boy, and she had to go and tell the girl "Get up off the floor!" 'cause I think she wasn't wearin' drawls or somethin'. She is kinda speaking to the young ladies about being real women and how there seems to be less of them around these days. So that's the concept of that song but the title is kinda scary. But like every song I did, I ran it by my kids first. Just for them to hear it, they loved the whole thing. I think some of my best stuff besides this is Gangsta Nutt, but they're not gonna hear that. They might hear it later, but with this everyone can listen to it. And like for radio, I don't have to make a radio version and all that stuff, so that's convenient. As far as being versatile, universal that's one purpose of the album. And just to show that I’m still here and hopefully better from when you previously heard from me. The last album I did was in 2002 so that was a while ago. That was good stuff too, but I was just trying to show a lil bit of evolution. Hence, like wanting to use live instruments I think that would have even made a bigger impact, but we’re doing good with this. I just wanted to show some evolution on my own part. That's what I'm trying to get out of it. I know everybody’s coming out with CD’s and they think its gonna be a big money maker, but I’m fairly realistic.

What's your affiliation with Phat Musik?

Phat Musik is doin' all my promotions. That's kind of like the deal. Much love to Ghetto Prez because he did a lot of that stuff for me and I didn't do hardly anything. He was handling a lot of that stuff. I had a talk with him and wanted to see if I could do this by myself. They came later and said let us at least help you promote it. DJ Peg so he put it, he felt like I did a lot of stuff for him. He would ask me for beats, and I would just give 'em to him, so he just wanted to give something back. They are going real hard for me right now.

Have you got support from radio thus far around here?

Zulu Radio (KBCS) Sean Malik gave me some real lovely spins on there and even mixed it up a little bit. Sweeng One did a whole show on the album on Who’s Rankin’ Radio. Some of the moves that Devon has made, I can reference that. That's important. Some of these guys out here I don't know and I might have to go a different way. With D'Black being younger in the situation, he's got better connections than I do. But I can go to those guys and ask them. I've sent the stuff to Larry Mizell (KEXP) and he posted it to Raindrop Hustla. Andrew Matson (Seattle Times) he put me in the Seattle Times and that's a good look. I figure that there has to be some exposure. This is not 1995 when we picketed KUBE 93, because that was just gangsta. They were like "Who are you guys?" and we were like nobody’s. We weren't even selling the CD's on the street or nothin'. But we were like "We got a CD out. Put us on!" And it worked, but you can't do that. 'Cause at first I felt there was a different circle going on.

Like a clique?

Yeah, and I said "Let me check this out..." and I started going to Neumos, Nectar, and places like that, and then started seeing the journalists. I was thinking I might have to do an accidental bump, and be like "Heyyy! What's up?!" You know, you don't want to be like "Hey, you be writin' and stuff?" I had to put myself in the way of some people. But I noticed that you have to move a certain way if you're gonna be looked at a certain way. I put Emerald Street Boys on 206Proof and Andrew Matson hit me up and was like "Hey, I want to use that" and he actually wanted to use the actual label off the record, but I couldn't find it at the time. He emailed me and I had his email and I was like "Hey, you think I can send you some stuff?" and I didn't know what he was going to do, but I just wanted him to have my stuff. And it worked out. It's almost more about the approach.

E Dawg told me once that Mix once told him in so many words "If you are not going to be professional enough to be the face of your brand, then get people in position that can be". It's that first impression and a lot of times during that first impression, if you rub somebody the wrong way, they aren't gonna give you a second chance.

Not only that, but they're gonna tell everyone else about it. I learned when I was a loan officer that a bad word travels like 10 times faster than a good word. They hear something good and it's like "He's cool." But when they hear something bad it's like "Did you hear about such and such?" I've been making my moves just feelin' it out. Like I've never done this stuff for myself before. And it's up to me now and it’s been educational to say the least. The 206Proof helped me out a lot. It's a real good snapshot sometimes of what's really goin' on in the town. You can really get a feel for it. The clique's are just mostly in your mind I found out. Most people that say there is a clique for some reason or another, they're probably not making it.

I think at one time around here there were some cliques in the town, but over a period of time and that what I've seen getting re-acclimated to the scene here is that there appears to be more synergy with people and more willingness of people to work together. Whereas back in the day, in the late 80's thru the mid 90's, people were kinda hoarding things to themselves or they were just extremely cliquish that nothing was going to leave their circle. Any connections or what have you, is going to stay in this circle right here. I'm glad to see things blossom. I remember going to the Bay Area once for an RBL Posse record release party and all types of cats from the Bay that were their supporting one of their own. And they were not necessarily gangsta rappers or what have you, but people comin' out to celebrate another one of their own making it from the town. I've always thought and known we had the talent. It was proven when major players started coming up here and getting music from the town. There was a reason for that.

And they were coming heavy. As a producer I was working with everybody. I was movin' in those cliques. I was in the Southend but I was able to do stuff for D Rox when he was recording over at the Pharmacy. And like in West Seattle, Gangsta Nutt and all those guys. As a producer, I noticed it quick. It didn't affect me that much. When it comes to marketing or your demographic. With this album, I wanted to get them all in a barrel instead of finding out two years later how it really works.

It seems like people from here do music from the heart and not necessarily do it to move units. Would they love to eat off it? Absolutely, but it's not necessarily the case with everyone what they set out to do.

There are people that do that and there are those Soulja Boy knock offs. I think here its a lot easier to distinguish the two. And sooner or later they can't beat 'em so they join em. Like that right here (points to The Full Circle CD) I just don't care who likes it or who don't. I really don't. And like with the artists on there like Wojack? You think he cares about that? Silver Shadow? D Ale? Their attitude is like "I'm gonna tear this song up!" That's all they're worried about.

Silver going into a song is how I would picture Tyson going into a fight....

With this song there was a LOT of that. The intro was like 16 bars long and the outro. He was going off! I think almost everything Silver says is important, but I was like "C'mon man we gotta make a song here" and he was like "Awww, go ahead. He wasn’t just rantin' and ravin' he was speaking some real stuff.

More information on RC can be found at Cidewayz Productions and you can pick up "Full Circle" at your local record store.

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Back To The Original Source - Interview with R.C. Tha Trackaholiq